What's It Like: Finding Joy with Tyler Lapkin

Jen Lansink: Hello, everyone and thank you so much for joining me again this week. So I did something. I did something I haven't done since starting this podcast over a year ago and that is that I missed an episode. So this is what happened. Teal, Alex and I got on a 5:30am Flight to Denver last week. It was the day after school ended and summer had began and needless to tell you 5:30am Editing is not so great. So I waited until our next plane into Missoula, Montana. And I got about 50% of the editing done. And we landed and then I started the most amazing, exhausting vacation of my life with Teal, Alex, her papa, whom we hadn't seen in well over a year and grandma Jan, and guess what? Nobody freaked out. And most of all, I didn't so instead of freaking out and trying to skip activities with my family or miss a meal. I realized it was just going to have to be okay. It is okay to not meet deadlines. It's okay to not meet the expectations that you've set. No one yelled at me. No one emailed me with disappointment frankly, I don't think anyone cared. It was what it was. And it was our reality for the week I chose our family. I chose to have an amazing time and make memories that I will never forget. And I am choosing to tell a story about how incredible that week was instead of how much I missed my deadline for the podcast. I had an experience of just utter amazement and I will have an episode on this ranch because it was incredible. We got to see Teal on horseback. Everyone in the entire ranch accepted her and all her magic. She was like the social director. We got to see her play with kids from all over the country. And you know what all of those parts those are parts of the story that I want to tell. And that really leads me into our episode today. With Tyler Lapkin. He joins us from Tahoe City, California. He is the son of Deborah Lapkin, who is episode aired on February 12, and the brother to Haley who's episode aired on March 12. We are bringing it full circle today with Tyler's perspective. And while we go into you know, his experiences growing up with Haley and having a sister with special needs, he shares his beautiful outlook on life and how his experience with his incredible father and mother and sister have really shaped his life. And I really encourage you to listen to the end, where he speaks about his meditation training and the work he's doing with the Joseph Campbell foundation. So I just know you're gonna enjoy this episode. Before I let you go. If you would subscribe to our podcast, send us a review or share it with a friend. I would greatly appreciate it. As always, I hope you enjoy and let me know what you think. 

JL: I'm very excited to bring a whole circle to this 'What's it like?' concept because we have interviewed Tyler's sister and Tyler's mom and now it's Tyler. So I'm going to introduce you to Tyler and then we're going to dive right into what's it like being a brother to an individual that has a disability or special needs, so here we go. Tyler was born and raised in the North Lake Tahoe area. Here he gained a passion and respect for the natural world and his place in it. He grew up skiing and after learning to surf at age 12 discovered a deep love of the ocean. Tyler graduated from UC Santa Barbara in 2004. With a degree in history and a focus in environmental studies and Italian he then moves to Santa Cruz, California where he spent four years becoming an acupuncturist, earning a master's degree in traditional Chinese medicine. Tyler began a private acupuncture practice in 2010 and started the acupuncture program for patients and caregivers at Tahoe forest hospitals Cancer Center in 2012. He continues to practice part time in Tahoe City during his time in Tahoe and traveling the world to hike, surf, and ski. Tyler also developed a keen interest in photography. He also worked for the Joseph Campbell Foundation, interviewing some of today's deepest thinkers for the podcast with 1000 faces which he produces. And he recently finished a two year meditation teacher training program with Jack Kornfield and Tara Brach. He continues to pursue his passion of deepening his understanding of life, health, our connection to the natural world and each other. Holy bio Tyler, thank you so much for joining us.

Tyler Lapkin: It's a pleasure to be here with you Jen.

JL: It's so fun because this is really full circle. This is really your dad's next pretty much. I mean, Larry's gonna have to come on and talk to us because you are Haley's brother, your mom, Deborah came on and talked with us as well for the Valentine's issue about love. And it's just really amazing that you're taking some time to share your story with us. So thank you. Let's first just dive right into 'What's it like?' You have a sister with brittle bone and we've talked with her. Are you youngest? Are you oldest? Where are where are you in that setup of a family dynamics?

TL: Well, I was three years old when Haley was born. So I'm 41 now. Haley just turned 38 So yeah, I was around for a little while before, but I don't really remember much of my life without Haley being in it. 

JL: Yeah, that's what I was gonna ask you. 

TL: Yeah, I think as a three year old kid, it was just who I was. I became Haley's brother. And she's been a huge part of my life ever since then.

JL: You know, there's so many questions that I want to get into about family dynamics, and what's it like being a brother in that situation, etc. But first of all, just tell us about your relationship with Haley.

TL: We're pretty close. So we had a really nice childhood growing up together. I was involved in everything that was going on with her. Just because I was so young, that if Haley had to go to the doctor, or we tend to go to the hospital, or we had to go to physical therapy, I was going too. A lot of my childhood when I was a little boy, we were doing things together. And I think because of that, we just have a very close relationship. Even though she lives in Oregon now. We still talk at least once a week we FaceTime. We're texting most days. We're sending each other things on on Instagram that we think are funny.

JL: I was just gonna say that she has a huge sense of humor. 

TL: She really does. And I know it... so if I see anything that I know is gonna crack her up. You know, I'll send it to her and we're in communication. pretty frequently throughout the week. And definitely a check in at least once a week on FaceTime.

JL: Yeah. It's interesting that you said you became Haley's brother, instead of she became your sister.

TL: I mean, it was both. Yeah, it was definitely both. 

JL: Yeah, I do think that's a tricky thing, just because it's I'm Teal's mom. You know, I'm Teal's mom because people know Teal and partly because Teal is different. They know Teal because she's different. And in a great way. I mean, I adore my daughter and most people adore my daughter, but she's different. And so she gets attention and that attention draws away from a lot of other things. A lot of other kids in school, a lot of other people get less attention because she's getting the attention. So you know, you're in school ahead of her. Did you guys go to the same school?

TL: For a few years there is overlap. I was three grades ahead of her. So when we first moved back to Tahoe because we lived in the Bay Area for a while. When we were in the bay I was in I think it was kindergarten first and second grade. And Hayley was in a special school then in a special preschool. And then when we moved back to Tahoe, I think maybe for a year we were at the same school, and then that might have been it because in high school, I went to a different school. And there was really no overlap in high school, but it's a small community. So people definitely knew that I was Haley's brother that she was my sister. There was a connection there.

JL: How did people treat you?

TL: By people who do you mean?

JL: kids in school,

TL: in relationship to having a sister who was disabled? I mean, mostly kids were were fine. I remember a few incidents where kids would come up to me and make fun of my sister, even though she wasn't there. 

JL: Oh, my God 

TL: That was was very rare. That was very rare. You know, in hindsight, I look back at who those kids are and who they turned out to be and they'd matured and those kids were having a lot of trouble at home back then. So kids act out in funny ways. And it's an easy target to pick on someone who's different. Doesn't matter if you're disabled or what if you're different or you're the other. You're an easy target in a lot of ways which it continues on today, in many ways in our culture, but it was pretty rare. I never really had that issue with with other kids.

JL: It's such a good thing to say out loud and even if there's other kids that are listening, or even if moms and dads could play that section of this podcast for other kids. If I had only known that growing up, right that I got picked on one because I was unique, but two, I got picked on by the kids that were probably struggling the most. And having like you said a home life that maybe wasn't exactly ideal for them or in abusive situations of some sort. And they take it out on other on, like you said, easy targets and if other kids can just understand that and even looking at that other person with compassion.

TL: It's a hard thing to come to that realization in the moments and especially you know, when you when you're a child, you don't you don't have that perspective, to be able to take somebody else's position of what they're going through at home, to cultivate that compassion. It's a little harder, I think.

JL: I agree. However, it is something that I think one I think our kids are significantly more evolved than we were, you know, but I think kids coming in now are highly evolved. And they're asking questions sooner. They're, they're listening sooner. They're looking at things differently. And so I don't think it's bad to have the conversation, even if it's just starting the conversation. If they can't remember it in the moment. Maybe it's when they're crying at home, and mom or dad can say hey, let's think about why someone would pick on you, you know, or even not targeting the other person, but putting perspective on the other person.

TL: Absolutely. When Haley and I were growing up, it was the 80s and 90s. So it was just a different time in terms of what was portrayed in the media, you know, the idea of being inclusive. It was just a different time. So like you said, I think now there is more openness, about about things just out there more.

JL: I was at Target the other day, and I remember seeing a photo of a woman in shorts, and she was modeling the shorts and she only had one leg and it was awesome. I was like yes, finally we're actually showing reality and not perfect stick thin people but so did you guys have a community that you felt a part of as you were growing up? Or was it very isolating?

TL: Well, just in terms of our friends, community and my parents friends, we definitely had that you know, is Haley listening to your interview with her, it was interesting for me to hear her say that she never really thought of herself as disabled.

JL: I loved that statement when she said that.

TL: Because she just was hanging with everybody else and she was included. And for me, I think part of it because I was so young. It was just the way that things were. It was only as I started to become older, that the challenges that my family faced that my parents were up against became more clear, because I think at three years old, you don't necessarily understand that how challenging things are relative to other people's situation relative to people who are not handicap or have a handicapped child or so that realization didn't come until later for me, but just in general in our community. I think that my mom, my parents had really good friends who were understanding and who were accommodating to what was going on and I think even Haley talks about it. Her friends who were younger, especially when up until she was in middle school in high school. They just saw Haley as if as a friend and they played with her as if Haley could play was only when she got a little bit older. And these other interests start happening whether it's boys or activities that Hayley really started to be not excluded, but she just couldn't participate in the same way. 

JL: Yeah. So let's talk about the elusive guilt. So you at that point, we're doing sports and you know, describe to me what your weeks looked like. And then were you being three years old... older. At that time, were you able to start realizing I'm experiencing things that my sister can't and what were the emotions attached to that?

TL: Well, let me start off by saying that, you know, my mother's Italian I was raised Catholic my dad's Jewish, there's guilt thats in the blood on both sides. So that's something that I had. God bless both of them. 

JL: They are great people. 

TL: Yeah, it's just something passed down and in the culture for everybody. But whatever, you know, Italian guilt, Jewish guilt, it's a it's a real thing. Its unspoken. But, you know, to answer your question, seriously, growing up in a, in a situation like this, you gain a lot of perspective, what it means to be, I think, to be a human being really, to have that contrast to what I was able to do. You know, I would be going skiing with my dad and go playing outside and Haley would be inside and doing what she does. And my mom used to watch videos with her and you know, they would do their best to bring her out into the world and take her shopping and take her later on to concerts and all these different things, but just in terms of like the physicality of it. And the ease with which my life could function and the difficulty that everything that she did, she needed help with. Yeah, but over time, that helped me to cultivate a lot of compassion, both for her for my parents for what they had to do every day just to, you know, get her fat and clean and go to the bathroom. It's devotion to also it's a lot of work. So I think at an early age, I sort of had this understanding. Also that, you know, Haley, again, she's this really bright light and it didn't necessarily matter what she could do, physically. There was something inside of her that we all have that, you know, we were really the same. It was just that I was able to do things that she wasn't able to do, and that my life was a lot easier than than hers. So I don't know it's not necessarily guilt. I mean, to be perfectly honest, I mean, there's, there's like a sadness there. Maybe a little bit of guilt, but like a sadness, but just like an understanding and appreciation. And then also, you know, wanting to make someone who I love, wanting to make their life is as good as it can be. To have them have beautiful experiences and love and, and I, my parents were the best models of that. Yeah. So I was able to grow up seeing that, which I think has given me a lot of perspective, a lot of perspective. I don't know if that answers your question or not

JL: it was it's perfect. As you were talking, there's so many questions going through my head but the biggest thing that I want everyone to understand or here is every time I see you in Tahoe City, or at your parents house or just walking, you exude deep, deep compassion and empathy for the entire world around you. You can just feel it and when you see me at the grocery store at New Moon, you ask genuinely, either you're a really good Faker or you actually, like genuinely how are you and you can feel it in your voice that you care and yes, your parents are beacons of amazingness. But you also I think, as a result of being in this situation with Haley, I loved how you said it just created this deep compassion and understanding and love for the world and around you and and it's just interesting when you look back now at what you're doing right if the course that your life has taken, I just sit there and think parents who have multiple children right and one of them has a handicap or disability or special need. What beautiful siblings that person you know you're creating all these amazing you know what I'm saying? Like you're you are who you are because of who you are exposed to but Hayley has done such a beautiful job of helping that but that was also in you. Like you said, I think it just fed it a little bit more like watered the seed that that is you. 

TL: I can't speak to how it would have been otherwise because all I know, but I also want to make the point that yes, it was a gift to be exposed to the challenges that come with having a disabled sibling or family member. And yet I don't want to minimize how difficult it was for my family. And most importantly for Haley, because her life hasn't been easy. And it's through going through the challenges and doing it together as a family, that you kind of gain these insights, again, as to what the human condition is, and how we can skillfully cultivate a life of joy. You know, even even when things aren't easy.

JL: Well, I mean, I think about just getting out of the house. You know, we traveled Alex and I for the first time to Spain without Teal the last a couple of weeks ago. And just getting out of the hotel room was like lickety split, like oh, you want to go yea lets go and we just got up packed a bag and left and it doesn't happen like that when you have children. But then when you have children with disabilities in a family unit getting out the door or going on a holiday or just going out for dinner, just talk to me a little bit about about that because it's just not easy. It's not as spontaneous.

TL: No, it's not. Not at all. There are many phases of it, making sure she's gone to the bathroom because it's difficult to go to the bathroom somewhere else getting the car ready and the lift down and doing all that in reverse whenever you get someplace and making sure that the place you're going through is accessible if they have a table that is going to work all of these things, all these things come into play. And at a certain point, though, it's just what you do. It just becomes normal. This is how it is. I will say we we went on a family trip, which we hadn't done in years to Hawaii a year ago. And it was very difficult, partially because my folks are a little bit older. And Haley's older and her shape is a little different than it was when she was younger and just trying to get someone who's disabled in a wheelchair through TSA, and then she doesn't walk and she's brittle, fragile to get her into a seat on an airplane. It was very challenging.

JL: She talked about that. Yeah. Did you see that delta is now creating seats where you do not have to get out of your wheelchair.

TL: Well, guess I'm flying on Delta.

JL: From here on out, no, it's and it's long overdue. I would like to say it's because of Haley and I's conversation. Because I was like what, why are there not locations for wheelchairs on airplanes? So I would like just go job Haley pat on my back go For Our Special Kids. 

TL: We'll give you guys the credit for sure. 

JL: Yup It's all us. Yeah, but she talked about how difficult that was and then getting into a restroom and I mean, it's one thing to be in a wheelchair. It's another thing to have Brittle Bone issues and moving around. So that's like compounded.

TL: Absolutely. Yeah. Just the extra care and fussing they have to take to move her anyplace.

JL: Yeah. How do you think as a child you had to learn gentleness How did that work? Because I gotta say, as a as a probably rambunctious three year old boy, there were some parameters that you had to live with. Maybe you don't remember when you were three, but maybe 5,6, or 7.

TL: I mean, it just became super clear. Hey, she breaks her bones and it causes her pain and so you can't do certain things. around her. I mean, I look at her. This is a different example. But her dog Adam. Adam is 14 years old, and she got him as a puppy. And Adam learns at a really young age that he had to be careful around her that he couldn't jump on her. I don't know how he learned that. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's the same thing as a young child. You just realized that this is again, this is the way it is. I mean, I broke his bones a few times. Growing up, I mean, we all did just stupid things, a bump, you know, pull on her finger the wrong way. And just, you know, the pain that you could see in her and I'm not gonna say it caused me more pain, but how awful I felt to cause someone you love pain like that, even if it's an accident. So he learned pretty quick that we need to be gentle and careful and make sure that she's, you know, out of harm's way.

JL: Yeah, our cats would like Teal to learn that skill. Because she's like, 'Hi Cat!' like we need to teach Teal some gentleness. Maybe I need to get Haley and Teal together for some gentleness training. Goodness me. Hoy-yo. What do other siblings need to hear? So let's say right now, there's a five year old and a seven year old and a nine year old in the house and the seven year old is challenged hasn't had on special issues, extra special needs, I like to call them. What do you think parents can tell those kids? It's a big question.

TL: Yeah, I don't know. It's a little bit abstract. Because every family situation is a little bit different. And every kid is different. Yeah. So again, I can only speak from my experience. I just I learned by example. I learned from my, parents, how they went about doing things. My mother is a very strong woman, like you talked about in her episode. She is an advocate, or my sister, and she, you know, especially when she was going through school, and I just I saw that and mirrored that. I think well hopefully, mirrored that in a way. And then my dad, who hasn't been talked about that much, so we pointed that out. Both to my sister and my mom, what about him? 

JL: What about Larry? We love Larry. I wave at Larry every day.

TL: I mean, he's just he just kind of put his head down. And he did what he had to do as a father. And he is the kindest, gentlest man and he deserves a lot of credit also for you know, I think at a certain point he he helped to keep my mom in check. He helped to keep her sain, I don't know if she shared this story with you. Maybe she did. But when Haley was born, the psychologist comes into the room. Right after she's born. My mom just found out that she had a child with brittle bone disease and the psychologist tells her I just want you to know that most marriages with a handicapped child end in divorce. 

JL: Yep. 

TL: That was one of the first things you heard after my sister was born. And, you know, my dad said, it's not gonna happen. And he showed up. I mean, it's a big deal. I don't want to make generalizations. But I think that men in our culture don't always show up for these difficult things, especially when they're younger men and my parents have been together for almost 50 years now. Through all of this stuff, and it hasn't always been easy. I think if you ask them even now how their relationship is but like they stuck through it and they've made my sister's 38 years old, and she's living independently. A lot of that's because of Haley. But most of that is because of the way that my folks cared for her and cared for each other and cared for me. 

JL: Yeah, everyone hears that. And I remember hearing that stat and being like, what, it's not going to happen to us, right? I get all mad and yet at the same time, I think it does one of two things when you have a child with extra special requirements it either drives you apart, or pulls you together, and Teal pulled us together. And not that Alex and I were on the path for divorce, but at the same time, you just have to make a choice. Either you let this bring more love into your family, and more passion and joy, or you don't and it is a choice. So I love it that your parents they had that before you guys were born but at the same time, seals it like a metal trap. Like I just saw an image of just like yes, iron like you guys are all and it is it's amazing. You guys are an incredible family. I feel honored to be in your neighborhood.

TL: Well, like you just said you had a choice. And the choice is to say yes to what is or the choices to resist what's happening. And that's the choice that we all always have in life. When anything is presenting to us. That's difficult, because it is what it is. That's how it is. And when we resist it. I mean, this is the fundamentals of Buddhism. Resistance to our life. When it presents creates suffering. And when we say yes to it, we may not like the situation that we're in. It may not meet what our expectations about our life, how they were going to be, but this is how it is. And so when you say yes to it, you're affirming and you can take steps in the right direction to create joy and the sorrows of the world because that's what it is.

JL: So let's talk about what you're doing. I mean, what amazing stuff is going on in your life with Joseph Campbell foundation and this meditation training with Jack Kornfield I mean, all of this stuff. So talk to me about that. I mean, you're kind of alluding to it now when you when you bring this in. It's it is a philosophy that you've chosen to live. So talking about what you're doing and what you love. And one I think a lot of people are wondering if you're single. 

TL: Yeah, at the moment, I am single. 

JL: So you can reach them at 530... haha

TL: Let me just let me start off by saying that my life has changed a lot in the last four years. I don't need to give specifics of it. But I was in a really bad accident four years ago, and up to that point, I was I had my own acupuncture practice, which I've been doing for about 10 years, and then it kind of all got taken away as I was recovering and getting strong again. So I had this again I had this opportunity through difficulty to reassess I realized how quick life could be taken away from from me from all of us.

JL: Well, and not to give too much information but you easily could have lost your life. So I mean, I we don't need to get to the details. But that's a very real thing for you. So... 

TL: Absolutely. And just just to tie this back to my sister, so after this thing happened, I broken bones on every limb, and I'm literally sleeping in my sister's bed in her room using her bathroom, being taken care of all my needs by my parents. And it was a really profound thing for me, because I think I always understood in some way like psychologically what my sister's life was like, but now, I was like, in not in her life, but I was totally dependent on everyone else for all my needs.

JL: And you had a bunch of broken bones. I mean, how like, what is going on? Whoa, full circle.

TL: I don't know things happen for a reason. But we can make sense of what happens to us up in our own way. I talked to Haley about it. And she laughed. She said, Well, I've I've always been like this. I didn't know any different and for you, you changed everything. But it did. It gave me like maybe I needed to have this perspective on what that was like. So it was really powerful thing for me. And during that time when I was recovering, I had this opportunity to reflect on what I really wanted to do what was important and so I've been meditating for a long time and I think meditating was one of the things that really helped me to get through everything that I had to go through in a more skillful way. It gave at least gave me some tools and some space to be able to deal with everything that was going on. And this program came up with some of the teachers who I loved the most Jack Kornfield and Tara brach and so I on the spot signed up to do this meditation teacher training. I've been working with the Joseph Campbell foundation for a long time helping with these workshops, and they knew that I couldn't go to my acupuncture practice to go to work. So they're like we have some other things for you to do. And I just took on more responsibilities within the foundation and it's turned into this really beautiful thing where it's a great, part time job, where I get to be creative, really, what Joe's  work does is he's talking about the human condition, and exploring it through mythology. Mythology, it shows us really, you know, the aspects of our own minds, the energies that flow through all of us and the potentials and the possibilities that we have in our life. So I find that the work is very similar with all the things that I do acupuncture, that meditation, that amble work is, is to just help to open people to what it is to be alive and what the potentials are, and how to navigate the challenges that we face in a in a more skillful way. So all these are tools that help us to do that. And while I was lying there, like Well, I wasn't really fulfilled doing what I was doing nine to five every day I was getting burnt out, especially when we started this group at the cancer center. When we started treating patients going through chemotherapy and radiation and our caregivers, which I'm super proud of. 

JL: Yeah, you should. 

TL: It's still happening. Now. This is, you know, 11 years later, free for the patients. You know, a lot of it was through the progressivism of that staff at the hospital to even conceive of having programs like this, but I put a lot of work into it too. And it's turned into this thing that it's really great. 

JL: Life changing. It's life changing. 

TL: Yeah. That to offer these things these other tools other than just Western medicine to the patient's going through something that's really difficult is a real been such a gift and there's not many places that offer something like this anywhere. So in our small community to have a program like that it's pretty cool. I was having long days. It was taking a toll on me and I was kind of getting burnt out. So you know this pause gave me this opportunity to look at things differently. I knew that I was in the right arena with what I was doing, but it's just how do I show up with it in the world in a way that feels good at it's bringing me joy and and still being of service in some way.

JL: Well, what a good lesson for all of us to remember is don't let a crazy ass car accident cause you to have those thoughts but realize that you have a choice like you said in a couple minutes ago, you have a choice. We all have a choice on how we accept and look at things and one of the biggest choices that I think we all need to make is to find and feel joy, period. Figure it out and whether it's what you're doing for a career or it's what you feel your hobbies with or your downtime with but find joy and if it means sitting in the sunshine rolling on the grass with your child because that's the only activity that they can do. But it brings you and that child joy, find joy over and over and over.

TL: Absolutely. And you know, it's what we do in our workshop with the Campbell foundation is what we do with meditation also get to see the stories that we tell about things. It gives us clarity about the stories that we tell. We're always creating stories, whether it's consciously or unconsciously. So why don't we choose to create skillful stories that are beautiful about our life experience? Because that's ultimately what we're faced with. We can always see the negative and things and those stories are really easy to create. But we can also choose I mean not to be like a Pollyanna or anything but there are ways that we can create more beautiful stories about our experience. 

JL: Absolutely. 

TL: Absolutely. And you know, it's what we do in our our workshop with the Campbell foundation is what we do with meditation also get to see the stories that we tell about things. It gives us clarity about the stories that we tell. We're always creating stories, whether it's consciously or unconsciously. So why don't we choose to create skillful stories that are beautiful about our life experience? Because that's ultimately what we're faced with we can always see the negative and things. And those stories are really easy to create. But we can also choose not to be like a Pollyanna or anything, but there are ways that we can create more beautiful stories about our experience. Absolutely. Why wouldn't we want to have more beautiful story you know? 

JL: Well, that's always what I you know, people like Oh, Jen, you're always especially when I was growing up. Oh, you're always rose colored glasses half full. I'm like, yeah, why would you? Why would you want to live any other way? Okay, I understand. There's realism. And I'm not saying oh, I don't have a child with special needs. I do and it's hard and there are things in our life that are completely different than any other families, right. Like you said earlier as well. Every situation is its own unique situation, but I have a choice of the story that I tell when I look at my past and I look at all of these things I could have chosen to go down one direction that was horrible, right? I mean, I I was the college student that had the suicide hotline number on the back of her door because one of my family members was contemplating suicide. You know, you have a choice like I could have taken that and let it negatively impact and poison the rest of my existence. Or I could say, okay, that experience created this reality and that's a good part of who I was because I like myself, and I'm not going to deny that but man, I have a choice on how I tell that story. 

TL: Absolutely. Bad things happen. All you have to do is turn the news on. And again, it's you know, these things that if you were talking about with your family and my family and this this accident that I went through, I wouldn't wish it on anybody. I wouldn't but I wouldn't wish my sister's life on anybody. You know, as much as I love her, and I'm so happy that she's here. It's a really hard life. And at the same time, there are these gifts that come out of these things when we choose is to see it as such. And sometimes it takes a while to see it as such, you know, it's not going to come out in the moment when you're in it, but it makes you who you are. And the Chinese symbol for crisis. There's two symbols, made up of two symbols, danger and opportunity. So, anything that happens to us that we consider a crisis, there's always that other side to again tell this story, we have the opportunity to turn it into something that is gonna make us more complete human and gives us the chance to have joy in our life in an otherwise difficult situation. 

JL: Thank you for telling your story. 

TL: My pleasure. Thank you for thank you for listening 

JL: Yeah. So a couple of things. One, how can people find you? I'll put it in the show notes, but you have a couple different ways that people can connect with you. 

TL: I guess the easiest way I have a website, it's just my name Tylerlapin.com. My photography is on Instagram. It's just @TylerLapkin. If you want to listen to some of our Joseph Campbell podcasts, 

JL: which are amazing, 

TL: thank you. It's called 'The Podcast With 1000 Faces' you can subscribe and listen wherever you get your podcasts. 

JL: Yeah, it's really good. You're a very good question asker I was extremely nervous because my questions are nowhere near your questions. Well done. Thanks for motivating me. 

TL: Your questions are great. 

JL: Oh, youre kind. 

TL: It was a very good conversation. 

JL: I really enjoy it. 

TL: Thanks for leading me. 

JL: Well, one final question is can you give me and I'm sure it's probably a little tricky, but one magical moment that you remember with a person with special needs. Perhaps Haley? 

TL: Well, this is the thing that first comes to mind. It's just a recent moment. I was up in Oregon in April. And I was hanging out with Haley and often times I'll walk her dog around the block, and she decided that she wanted to go for a walk with me. So the three of us went on a walk around her neighborhood and it was just really simple and beautiful. And she would get in front of me in a wheelchair and just zoom along the sidewalk. And I just felt so grateful to be there doing that with her. 

JL: Thanks for sharing a simple memory. Find the joy in the magic and the simple, wonderful. Tyler, thank you so much for giving us some time and honesty and just a lot of joy and love. I can feel it within you every time I'm around you so thank you for giving me a little dose of Tyler. 

TL: Thanks again for having me. Jen.